Kiki's Delivery Service Vs The Satanic Panic

How did the cultural landscape of the late 20th Century pave the way for Kiki's Delivery Service to become a hit around the world despite the backlash to the occult in the 1980s?

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Sources:
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1990/09/Art1full.pdf 

https://www.thoughtco.com/us-economy-in-the-1980s-1148148 

https://www.japannakama.co.uk/a-taste-of-life-in-1980s-japan/#Commercialized

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_witchcraft

https://www.cbr.com/history-of-magical-girls-genre-popular/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-43615481

http://www.arcane-alchemy.com/blog/2021/5/13/witchcraft-through-the-ages-the-80s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic0hq7UWOiM&t=1133s&ab_channel=ModernGurlz

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/us/satanic-panic.html

https://www.vox.com/culture/22358153/satanic-panic-ritual-abuse-history-conspiracy-theories-explained

https://psmag.com/social-justice/make-a-cross-with-your-fingers-its-the-satanic-panic#.61dzb5vo3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_witchcraft 

https://www.cbr.com/history-of-magical-girls-genre-popular/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-43615481

https://www.tor.com/2020/08/06/the-magic-of-translation-interviewing-kikis-delivery-service-author-eiko-kadono-and-translator-emily-balistrieri/ 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R21tWs-qCw&ab_channel=TheNewYorkTimes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATUpSPj0x-c&ab_channel=TheNewYorkTimes

Kiki’s Delivery Service (novel) Eiko Kadono
 

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Greeks and Geeks, the podcast where I take us on a persnickety but fun journey deep diving into the lore behind our favourite stories. I’m your host Sabrina and today we’ll be looking at Kiki’s Delivery Service and the historical and cultural attitudes to witchcraft both in the West and in Japan. From the rise of the magical girl anime in Japan, the Hayao Miyazaki movie inspired by the original book, to the Satanic Panic and history of Hollywood’s interpretation of witchcraft. We all know about witches, so there’s not much to really discuss there, but the cultural landscape at the time is an absolutely fascinating one to explain. How could Kiki become such a beloved classic in an era where Americans were so afraid of the occult?

Lets take a brief synopsis of both the book and the film. Both the book and the film are quite different, the book is more a series of sweet, short adventures with no real link, whereas the film knits some of these stories together in a narrative more suited for film whilst adding dramatic and exciting moments. But the basic premise is the same. The story centres on a young witch Kiki and her little cat Jiji as they move to a new town to become the towns local witch. Both the book and the movie are utterly charming coming of age stories and it remains one of my favourite movies from director Hayao Miyazaki. 

So what’s the depiction of witchcraft like in the 20th century media and how did it change? We’re going to start with America because if I didn’t I’m sure I’d have lots of cranky Americans being like “WAAAH? Why aren’t we first? America number 1 baby! Unsubscribed!” Just teasing. And you might be thinking, why am I talking about America when Kiki’s Delivery Service is a Japanese book? Well that’s because, in Japan depictions of witchcraft, especially in children’s animation, were quite heavily influenced by Hollywood and American media. So it makes sense to talk about witchcraft in American media first. It has nothing to do with America being number one, except alphabetically I suppose and hold on why is there a giant eagle glaring at me from the tree outside my window?

Let’s forget the Eagle outside the Room and move onto a brief history of witchcraft in American media. Specifically film and TV. Witches and witchcraft often had strong links to the cultural feelings of the time. For example with the Great Depression and the rise of the Hayes Code, people were looking for villains to demonise and win against (booooo- ok for background context the Hays Code was a set of industry guidelines- based in Catholic values- which Hollywood followed from the late 1930s). So think Snow White’s evil queen or the good witch/bad witch dichotomy of the Wizard of Oz. Glinda literally says only evil witches are ugly and the evil witches get their comeuppance in the end. Glinda herself is more like a fairy godmother than a traditional witch. I mean “She wore a crown and came down in a bubble Doug!” and if anyone gets that reference, I award you 10 blue cookies because its one of my favourite internet videos of all time.

But then you have the 1950s and 1960s, where we see a rise in cartoon witches for children to go out and buy Halloween costumes of. Halloween costumes become a huge phenomenon and a MASSIVE industry which is still booming to this day and seems to grow every year. Then, along with the rise of second-wave feminism and TVs in every home, we have the relatable sitcom witch with the TV shows Bewitched and I Dream of Jeanie. Witches are more palatable to modern audiences again and I have to wonder if this matches up to the fact that the 50s and 60s were times of economic boom for America. They no longer needed to scapegoat women like they did during, say the Salem witch trials or World War 2. Now you have the modern woman, putting a magical spin on domestic issues so as to be relatable to the audiences watching at home. 

Samantha, the witch of Bewitched, was a wife living in suburban American with her non-witchy husband, and whacky hijinks usually ensue as the result of either Samantha’s own magic, or that of her meddling witchy families. But issues are always resolved at the end of the episode. The show is a typical sitcom of the era, where the stakes (pardon the occulty pun there) aren’t too high but does usually cause chaos for the mortal members of the cast in a typical rom-com fashion. We’ll come back to Bewitched later on but I can’t stress enough how huge the show was at the time.

Skipping ahead to the 1980s now, and here we have a time of immense and rapid change in American culture. The start of the decade was hit with a massive recession, job losses, companies collapsing the works. However by 1983 there was a rapid turnaround and from thereon out, it was boom time. It’s the shoulder-pad-clad businesswomen era. Think Holly from Die Hard or Melanie Griffith in working girl. Both mum and dad are heading into the office, and the use of daycares skyrockets, along with a feeling of parental guilt. We also have a new, frightening illness in with the HIV/AID epidemic and technology booming at an alarming pace. So much change, extreme lows followed by high, high, higs, so many unknowns. Then we have the a burgeoning acknowledgement of  PTSD and childhood trauma as thing, plus the shocking cult deaths of the late 1970s still being a part of the cultural conscious. and BOOM, you have the perfect catalyst for what is now known at the Satanic Panic.

The Satanic Panic started in the 80s and was kicked off by a now discredited book “Michelle Remembers” published in 1980 which was a recollection of therapy sessions written by a Canadian psychiatrist Lawrence Pazdar with his patient Michelle Smith. It went over her recovered memories using discredited techniques of memory recollection, and documented her supposed abuse at the hands of a Satanic cult. From that point on there was a frenzy across western culture, fears spread about Satanism, secret occult practises infiltrating quiet American towns and harming children. This phenomenon was mainly in America, helped by journalists who fanned the flames with misinformation and carefully curated their stories to make it seem like such things were really happening. Fear of the unknown sells, and sells well, a fact that is still unfortunately true even today.

I’m going to take a tangent here and say that reading about these memory collection techniques absolutely horrified me both as a Psychology graduate and an educator. Also, Lawrence Pazdar went on to divorce his wife and actually marry his Michelle, HIS PATIENT. The ethics of this I just- and the fact that he remained a psychiatrist I just- it boggles my mind. 

Those caught up in the Satanic panic were openly hostile to any sort of change, anything new which people didn’t understand was said to be a corrupting influence on the youth of society. Naturally, anything remotely witchy or occult was top of that list. Metal music, goth culture, Dungeons and Dragons, all were said to be playing a role in corrupting youth and causing indoctrination into cults and, even at worse, the death and murder of teenagers. False accusations of Satanic rituals in daycares ruined the lives of said daycare workers, people were accused of heinous acts that are so unbelievably outlandish that it’s genuinely hard to understand how it was possibly believed. I won’t recount the truly horrendous accusations here, but one of the most insane I heard was how one of the most famous Satanic Panic trials (the McMartin preschool trial) had witnesses say they saw witches fly, which seems standard enough, but also that the victims travelled in a hot air balloon? Which??? Hello? What the hell does a hot air balloon have to do with Satan or witchcraft?? I have to say, out of all the methods of travel, I really think Satan would prefer a more dignified or evil mode of travel. I propose that Satan actually prefers the Northern Line of the London Underground. I would have gone with the Central Line, as it’s hotter than hell and the red coloured line, but 1- that’s way too on the nose and 2- I think the central line is way more evil than satan.

I’m making silly jokes to lighten the tension, but I cannot stress enough how terrible the Satanic Panic was. Not only for the innocent people who went to prison accused of the worst kinds of crimes with no evidence, but for the supposed victims too. Unethical interview techniques on CHILDREN lead those children to grow up traumatised with false memories and guilt from being part of those trials. Investigators would push interviewees (usually children) when they weren’t giving the answers the investigators wanted, leading those children to think they wanted a certain answer. When children answered in a way the investigators wanted, they were then given tons of praise, positively reinforcing the answers the investigators WANTED to hear. 

Reading back the transcripts is truly sickening and infuriating. Let me give you an insight into how Teachers, at least in the UK, are trained to handle instances of children disclosing things to you. You are trained to not use any leading questions, questions which might suggest to the child that you want them to answer a certain way. You are meant to let the children talk as freely as they want and if you do have questions, you use phrases like “Tell, Explain, Describe” so children can elaborate on their points further. Only after the conversation has finished do you tell them “thank you for telling me this” and you also don’t make any promises, but you do try to reassure them that they did the right thing. BUT ONLY AFTER. Then when we make a safeguarding report, we stick to facts and facts only, and try to record as much actual speech as we can remember. The reason for this is, should a case go to court, the defence can have evidence tossed out if they believe the person who recorded it was leading the child to answer in certain ways, and that can mean a victim stays in a dangerous situation for longer. It is a very heavy, intense responsibility and it is a hard thing to do. To keep your emotions at bay when you have even the slightest suspicion that a child in your care is being harmed in some way, and only stick to facts. It feels unnatural and cold. So it’s understandable how such a thing could have happened in the 80s, when all of this was less understood and emotions were at a fever pitch. People wanted to protect their children. But I couldn’t help but think about the Witch Hunts in Europe, or the Salem Witch Trials in the US, where the accused were always going to be guilty no matter what, such was the fear of the occult at the time.

But where did that leave the media? Surely in the wake of the Satanic Panic, there were less shows about witches or, if they were around, they were scary, evil witches right? Don’t want anyone corrupting the young or getting them involved in Satanic cults!

Well… yes and no. It’s weird! I fully went into this episode expecting a cauldron full of anti-witchcraft, anti-occult movies where the witches get punished for their crimes at the end. And there are some of these, mainly in the shlocky horror movie genres or made for TV dross. The one that is the most insane to me is an anti-dungeons and dragons movie called Mazes and Monsters. It came out in 1982 and is about a group of college students with a glut of problems, be they family problems or problems socially, and how they start playing a game called Mazes and Monsters, which causes the gamers to lose their minds and deaths occur. Basically, exactly what the Satanic Panic crowd thought Dungeons and Dragons was and what would occur if anyone vulnerable played it. But I haven’t told you the wildest part.

This movie? It starred TOM HANKS. Yes really. TOM HANKS right at the start of his career.

You also had a number of horror movies which focused on witches or occulty things. For example the Halloween franchise decided to drop Michael Myers as their villain and replace him with witches for the movie Halloween 3: Season of the Witch. And I want to say, not since the previous episode where I talked about that Troy: Odyssey movie with Odysseus fighting that Kraken, have I experienced a plot that made my want eat my own Halloween-themed mug (it’s got a black cat and says Stay Spooky on it). Once again I had to rely on ye old IMDB, Wikipedia and the sometimes hilarious reviews from critics at the time because I’m a giant baby who hates horror films I’m sorry. But from what I can gather, the evil plot of the “pagan” or “witch” in this movie is to resurrect the rituals of child sacrifice from his native celtic homelands by using fragments of…Stonehenge and putting them in microchips. The microchips then go into these Halloween masks which children wear and then they get killed.

I…

I need you to. 

*breathes* ok hold on I’m going to yell I’m sorry.

WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS THIS HOLLYWOOD FOOLERY?! CELTIC PEOPLE DON’T PRACTISE CHILD SACRIFICE?! AND YOU SEEM TO BE PUTTING CELTS, PAGANS AND DRUIDS ALL TOGETHER AS IF THEY’RE ALL THE SAME WHEN THEY’RE VERY MUCH NOT. STONEHENGE IS A PRE HISTORIC SITE WHICH PRE-DATES THE DRUIDS BY THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND HISTORIANS SAY ITS DOUBTFUL CELTS OR DRUIDS EVER USED IT IN THE PAST REGARDLESS. AND HOW DO YOU EVEN ATTEMPT TO STEAL A STONEHENGE STONE? STONHENGE IS IN THE MIDDLE OF A BLOODY FIELD. WHAT DID YOU GET A CRANE ON THE A303 AND LIFT IT UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT? YOU DON’T THINK PEOPLE WOULD NOTICE THE GIANT BLOODY STONE MISSING THUS CREATING AN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT CONSIDERING IT’S A WORLD HERITAGE SITE? AND HOW DO THE STONES FROM STONEHENGE WORK WITH MICROCHIPS?! THERE IS SO MUCH WRONG WITH THIS THAT IM GOING FULL MILLENNIAL HERE BECAUSE I LITERALLY CAN’T EVEN. I HAVE STOPPED THE ABILITY TO EVEN. THERES SO MUCH TO UNPACK I’D NEED TO HIRE AN ENITRE MOVING COMPANY.

The script I wrote is reminding me to breathe again. So I’m going to do that now but rest assured that this is now added to the list of things that make Sabrina Immediately Angry. My only solace is that is widely panned by critics at the time and that when it came out it was the lowest grossing movie in the Halloween franchise. Thanks to Roger Ebert and Vincent Canby for their reviews providing me with a bit of sanity again, and my girls in my groupchat for letting me scream about this and imparting my cursed knowledge at them. 

So there’s a few example of American medias reaction to the Satanic Panic, and there are other occulty horror movies too. But what about the films aimed at children? Because lets be honest, children were thought to be the most at risk from satanic influences at the time. How were witches depicted in media for children then? 

Well, surprisingly, they weren’t banned altogether. In fact, there were tons of witches in cartoons. Usually they were the stereotypical pointy hat fiends or generally evil characters such as the White Witch from the 80s adaptation of the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe or Gargamel from the Smufs who- if I’m going to be honest- until I started researching for this episode, I had NO idea he was meant to be a wizard. The only thing I can say to defend myself is that I’m a 90s kid and only saw a handful of Smurf reruns because *croaky old lady voice* back in myyy day you didn’t have the youtubes and the streaming services and TVs were fuzzy when you put your hands on them. Besides, the live-action movie with Neil Patrick Harris is something I avoided because whilst I enjoy the odd bad movie binge, that seemed too much even for me. So yeah I’m sorry, I’m Smurfs ignorant. Smignorant if you will.

So yes, you did have the baddie witches but occasionally you would have a good witch or even a relatable one. From the campy show TV show He-Man, Orko was a magic being who looked like mix between a witch and Vivi from Final Fantasy 9. He was a friend and ally of He-Man! You also had the Worst Witch, Mildred Hubble which I know what you’re thinking- Sabrina that was a TV show in the 90s! Well yes but there was also a movie that came out in 1986 and it starred Tim Currey so I HAD to talk about it. The Worst Witch is based on a 1974 book of the same name and was a joint British/American venture. It follows the adventures of Mildred, who goes to a school for witches and gets into all sorts of adventures because she’s not the best with her magic. It’s pretty cringey and the effects are bad, but kids of the time enjoyed it. She was a relatable witch for kids, an underdog with magical power. What Samantha was to the 1960s housewife, Mildred was for an 80s schoolgirl.

It's weird isn’t it? At least I found it strange. The Satanic Panic seemed to be a mass hysteria sweeping across America. Accusations flying around. Lives ruined. All in the name of protecting children from the scary occult, from flying witches and hot air balloons (I’m sorry I can’t let it go). I really thought, going into this episode, that the Satanic Panic would have had a much bigger impact on the movies, especially considering how much we know from before, that witchcraft in media reflected a lot of the cultural feelings at the time. Why didn’t the satanic panic do for witchcraft what the hays code did decades before?

I have a theory. And that theory? Capitalism. Let me explain. It’s the 80s. It’s a time of RAMPANT consumerism. And kids became recognised for the lucrative market they were. CEOs saw dollar signs in their eyes. TV shows aimed at children, particularly Saturday morning cartoons, were designed mainly to sell merchandise. Shows like Transformers (robots in disguise), the Care Bears, My Little Pony, G.I Joe all caused a flurry of toys to fill the shelves. But lets go back to the 1950s now, and how a rise in cartoon witches aimed at children was reflective of the rise of trick or treating. Witches are easily marketable, extremely recognisable and engaging for children. And the more eyes on the screen, the more money in the pockets of those CEOs. In the fight of Satanic Panic Vs Capitalism, I believe that capitalism won this round.

But the 80s couldn’t last forever. So lets look to the 90s and to the end of the Satanic Panic

(MUSIC)

By the 90s, the Satanic Panic was starting to die down. From 1995 the big players of the Satanic Panic started to come forward and admit that they were wrong. A lifetime movie was made, portraying those imprisoned as the victims they truly were. Doctors were also sued for implanting false memories. Apart from the vocal minority who still hated Witchcraft and thought it would corrupt the youths, the Witches were back baby! And they were more popular than ever.

The 90s were THE witchy era. The 80s, despite the Satanic Panic, were the starting point but things really kicked off in the 90s. Sabrina the Teenage witch appeared on screens, a beloved TV show which yes I watched despite the mocking I used to get from school (it made me want to change my name until the age of 18, but then I realised that introducing myself as “Sabrina, like the teenage witch” helps people remember me so yay!), Hocus Pocus, Practical Magic, The Craft, The Witches, all of these iconic movies and TV shows on the backdrop of the Whimsigoth fashion trend and are staples of cozy autumn vibes to this day.

All of this to mean that this is a perfect backdrop for Kiki’s Delivery Service to be released. The book wasn’t published in English until 2003, so the movie was all we had to go on until then. Here’s the part that gets a little weird though. It’s really hard to find anything about the early 1990 US release. How many theatres was it in? What was the general reception? If anyone knows do tell me. I can only guess it was a very limited run and in Japanese, because the main release date seems to be the first dubbed English version which came out in 1998. There’s a part of me that theorises that maybe they held off release due to the backlash to witches at the time too, but again I can’t actually substantiate that with any evidence. Plus we know translation took a lot longer then than it does today. By 1998, the Satanic Panic was out of public conscious and the era of the 90s witch was in full swing. The VHS dub of Kiki sold 900,000 copies in its first month alone and was critically acclaimed. However that didn’t stop the Christian Group “Concerned Women for America” from boycotting screenings, accusing Disney of having a dark agenda and “Reverting to witchcraft.” Which, I mean, we all know Disney has a dark agenda but that’s only in regards to getting us to spend money isn’t it?

Isn’t it?

Why is there a cartoon mouse sat next to the scary American eagle outside my window now?

Regardless, the Satanic Panic still had enough of a cultural impact on certain groups to ensure that there were protests and boycotts, even in 1998. Maybe if it had released earlier, during the height of the Satanic Panic, we might have seen even bigger protests but we’ll never know that for sure.

Anyways, I’ve explained the cultural history of witchcraft in the West and its depiction in media, which lead Kiki’s Delivery Service to be a hit despite the loud voices from the very conservative, fundamentalist crowd. Now lets go to Japan and look at what inspired Kiki to begin with.

(MUSIC)

The author of Kiki’s Delivery Service is Eiko Kadono. She was born January 1st 1935 and lead a fascinating life. A WW2 child evacuee, a graduate of English Literature and a woman who has gone on to write over two hundred books and win a flurry of awards. She was also 35 when her first book was released and describes herself as a late bloomer. Kiki’s delivery service was first published in 1985 and Eiko was inspired to write Kiki’s story from a drawing of a witch her daughter made, and so she wrote Kiki to be the same age as her daughter- between childhood and adulthood.

But what might have inspired Eiko’s daughter to draw a picture of a witch that fateful day? One with musical notes and a radio instead of a scary face and an evil glint in their eye? To understand that lets look at the phenomena in Japanese anime known as the Magic Girl genre.

What is the Magic Girl genre? It’s a genre both in manga and anime where the main protagonist is a young girl who is able to wield some form of magical power. Usually this is with a transformation sequence into a cute outfit, with a staff and a familiar. Some magic girl shows are more slice of life, some are about tackling the forces of evil but most of them deal with how the protagonist tries to live a normal human life whilst dealing with their powers. The genre was heavily influenced by Western depictions of witchcraft, at least in the space of child-friendly or family-friendly witches, not so much the ones tied up in devil worship. It’s worth noting here that Japanese folkloric representations of Witchcraft are INCREDIBLY different to Western ideals and the magic girl genre. For one thing there’s way more foxes, which I highly approve of.

In the 1960s the first magic girl anime appeared on Japanese screens, called Sally the Witch. It was about a witch named Sally, living in the mortal world and using magic to solve every-day problems. Sound familiar? That’s because it was inspired by the Bewitched TV show! I really love this because it’s a perfect example of the cyclical nature of art, how art inspires art, inspires art no matter where we are in the world.

From here there was a split in culture between America and Japan. Whilst witches fell out of popularity in the 70s, in Japan their popularity continued to grow more and more. And it was never hindered, even slightly, by the Satanic Panic.

In the 1980s the genre continued to grow with Toei animation (yes the One Piece studio) creating a whole line-up out of it. Other studios quickly realised the genres potential and followed suit. Magical Princess Minky Momo and Creamy Mami which sounds so SO wrong to say considering I’m part Spanish, were two magic girl animes at the peak of the genre. They were so popular that they ended up doing a crossover! It’s in this landscape where Eiko’s daughter drew her witchy picture, and Kiki’s Delivery Service was published, taking the eye of the world famous studio Ghibli director Hayao Miyazaki. I want to say that the book was successful and beloved in its own right before the movie though, as sometimes I feel like it definitely gets overshadowed. If you’re someone who has watched Kiki’s Delivery Service but hasn’t read the book yet, please do read it. I highly recommend it. It’s a very quick read, and the episodic nature of it makes it a good book for children too!

By the way I know that I’m talking about the magic girl genre and I know some of you are going to say “but what about Cardcaptor Sakura?” “what about Sailor Moon?” and I know. I KNOW. It’s weird for me to not talk about two of the biggest staples of the magic girl genre. But they came out after Kiki’s Delivery Service so I can’t put those down as influences. I’m SORRY. I want to talk about them too because they’re amazing and I love them but it just doesn’t work with what I’m trying to do here. 

Great now Cerberus and Luna are added to the list of weird animals giving me the stink eye outside my window. I’m making enemies left, right and centre this episode aren’t I?

So Japan in the 1980s was absolutely booming. The economy was excellent, there was no Satanic Panic. Witches were a beloved staple of anime with the genre growing year on year. Western influences were creeping in. It makes absolute sense that in 1989, when Kiki’s Delivery Service the movie was released, that it was Japans number 1 grossing movie that whole year. It grossed 31 million dollars at the Japanese Box office. This is my favourite bit because now I get to use the website that converts past money into how much its worth today. So, for reference, that’s about 76 million in todays money, for a population half the size of the United States at the time, that’s some big money especially considering I doubt going to the movies caused you to need to remortgage your home in the late 1980s like it does today.

I’m just joking, I’m a millennial we don’t own homes hahaha..ha….

So there you have it. Two wildly different cultures, borrowing from each other, inspired by each other, but separately developing into a society where, by the time Kiki’s Delivery Service (both the book and the film) were released in their respective countries, they were able to become the beloved classics they truly deserve to be.

I love Kiki’s Delivery Service, the book, because it is so utterly charming. The writing is simplistic and sweet, but never talks down to its audience. The movie, too, is wonderful in all its differences and speaks to artists everywhere. And I’m glad that society of the time was in the right place to truly accept Kiki and witches everywhere. My only hope is, moving forward, that the witch genre continues to thrive for generations to come.

Because, lets face it, witches aren’t going anywhere. And that can only be a good thing.

(QUESTION TIME SEGMENT)

I hope you enjoyed this weeks question time. The question for you guys this week is, if you were a witch what animal would your familiar be? And as always you can ask me questions and answer the question on spotify, on tiktok or on twitter the links are all in the episode summary.

Next week we’re moving away from Witches but we’re going to be combining the spooky with a look back at one of Greek Mythologies most interesting characters and ask ourselves, why did Mary Shelley called Frankenstein the Modern Prometheus.

And as the collection of angry characters looks outside my window looks ready to attack, I’m going to take this moment to say thank you for listening! I’ve been your host, Sabrina, and this is me, Geeking Out! See ya!!!